R.I.P. Liu Xiaobo
Posted by MyLaowai on Friday, July 14, 2017
Liu Xiaobo 28 December 1955 – 13 July 2017
Wo Shi Laowai – Wo Pa Shui
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0112337 said
On a side note…
I was just in Belgium. The French part. People there are petty as hell and got a German sense of beating you to submission with their opinions. A truly awful, bastard breed of French people…
Why is this? Lets discuss below..
Prince Harry said
Nobody has the slightest interest in your rabid babblings. Why don’t you take some writing classes, you know, learn how to string together facts in some sort of vaguely logical order?
Prince Harry said
Or read some Dale Carnegie books – might even help your social life, you know, you might actually get one.
0112337 said
Nothing hurts more than the truth, now, does it?
Keep reading.
;)
Prince Harry said
Of course, Mr. Numbers “non-sequitur” Wang
Prince Harry said
Read this next time you find yourself dreaming about China’s “great” future:
https://sentinel.tw/real-reasons-behind-chinese-expansionism/
MyLaowai said
@Prince Harry: I always respected Howard French. One of the very few Journo’s that really understood China.
justrecently said
It’s sad news indeed. I’m looking forward to the day when those who are responsible for this travesty of justice will face their legitimate judges.
MyLaowai said
It must be said, sadly, that anyone who puts profit above morality is very slightly responsible for this, and many other travesties in the Middle Kingdom. And that does include a great many folks in the West who should know better.
Incidentally JR, I wrote you an email a few months back – did you get it?
shexal said
Good news. Dead democracy fighters are good democracy fighters.
justrecently said
He’s put your cowardice to shame, Hexal. All you can do now is hate him.
shexal said
Yes, of course, but in the sense that Liu’s cowardice makes him believe China should be a Western colony for hundreds of years to become modern. I hate anywho hates China.
justrecently said
Only people who hate themselves need to hate others beyond death. Proud people don’t need to do that.
shexal said
Muslims do that.
shexal said
That is why Europeans love Muslim rapists.
shexal said
This blog seems to be more than ten years old. China haters in the west get desperate during that time because the China they hope will meet her doomsday soon keeps developing and gets better by the day. Meanwhile, the west is in deep trouble with themselves. Stagnant iincome, mounting debts, dirty Muslims, flagging economy, deadlier streets and neighborhoods, more-idiotic leaders. The worse is yet to come. Brace yourselve. Boom, boom, shakalala….
shexal said
Yes, you are absolutely right. Unlike in the West, the leaders in China will get thrown into jail if they do not serve their office in the best interest of the people. We have no mercy for any leader at whatever level who do otherwise. In the West, the leaders have more than 1,000 ways of get outing out of trouble through a system called western democracy. Maybe that’s why Muslims and the richest are fucking your countries and your leaders get away with it and you are doing nothing.
justrecently said
The greatest China haters aren’t in the West, Hexal. People like you will be the first to demand their leaders’ heads once they fall off the horse. You won’t even remember that you kissed their feet only days earlier.
justrecently said
>>We have no mercy …<<
Corruption (and jailing peers) is business among tigers. Underlings like you can only flatter themselves, and kick people who are already on the floor. As long as a man is in power – as corrupt as he may be -, you will kiss his feet, and vent your hate on foreigners, Chinese Muslims, dissidents, and other minorities.
shexal said
In a sense, you are right. The difference is that in the west, political leaders almost never get thrown into jails. Those they were are examples belong to the “business among tigers.” The politics of the west is by nature and by definition corruption based and is toys of the rich.
In in this world, there are no bigger foot kissers than Western people or rather their corrupt government. The United States might be be an exception. European countries and some Asian countries groan under military military occupation. So, it seems that it is the westerners that kiss the feet of those in power. Muslims, for example. The rich, for example. Muslims are infesting your countries and raping your girls. And the rich are selling your countries to these dirty religious believers. I would love to see Europe becomes Europestan in the next few decades.
Speaking of revolts, today’s China is the result of a series of bloody revolutions against ANYONE who want to enslave us. After all, our National Anthem starts with:
Rise, those who do not want to be slaves!
For you to start with, drive out American occupiers and defend yourself and make your countries sovereign ones. Foot kissers. Before that, you don’t have any idea of how the people of a soveregn state think.
Speaking of corrupt government officials still in power, we revolt, unlike you.
shexal said
Could you please explain why the people in the West seem to love those lazy and dirty Muslims from North Africa and the Middle East live off your welfare system, make your streets and neighborhoods dangerous, and rape your women all the way the police stand by the side with hands in their pockets? And did European countries invade those faraway countries and make the people homeless and they now want to set up shop in Europe. Is this called retribution? For all the colonial atrocities committed hundreds of years ago?
justrecently said
The difference is that in the west, political leaders almost never get thrown into jails.
The difference is that corruption is rampant in China, not in the West. Yes, sometimes politicians get away with corruption in my country. But I prefer a system where an accused is considered innocent, unless proven otherwise. I certainly wouldn’t want a state where only those who have fallen off the horse can be successfully accused of corruption, and where cowards are kicking at corpses (conveniently, dead people can’t strike back).
Could you please explain why the people in the West seem to love those lazy and dirty Muslims from North Africa and the Middle East live off your welfare system, make your streets and neighborhoods dangerous, and rape your women all the way the police stand by the side with hands in their pockets?
That’s not a question, that’s slander with a question mark added, Hexal. Just as if I asked why we “seem to love those technology-stealing Chinese who rip our companies off (even as interns), and import triads into our otherwise lilywhite, innocent society.
But unlike you, I’m not a perfect racist. I’m trying to judge people based on their character. Thanks for showing yours off so generously.
European countries and some Asian countries groan under military military occupation.
I’ve got bad news for you: no country has to accept or tolerate American military bases. The Philippines cancelled one in the 1990s, and Libya did so in the 1960s.
For you to start with, drive out American occupiers and defend yourself and make your countries sovereign ones. Foot kissers. Before that, you don’t have any idea of how the people of a soveregn state think.
You don’t know a great deal about the world. Before 1990, the occupiers were rightfully in my country because they had won a war against us – America, the Soviet Union, Britain, and France. Now, some of them are here because we accept them here. This country has been sovereign for 27 years. We won’t change our arrangements just to please you.
Speaking of corrupt government officials still in power, we revolt, unlike you.
Then why is your corrupt government still there? We can vote ours out. You can’t.
shexal said
By Chinese definition, the entire political system of the West is corrupt. So corruption is first of all a definition. What is perfectly legal in America carries long jail terms, for example. Political power is monopolized by the rich capitalists. So is economic power. That’s why people earm about the same as decades ago, even though the nonical GDP keeps climbing one or two percentage a year.
Oh yeah. Slander. Swedish and German police hide reports about crimes committed by Muslims. A German father even hugged the Muslim man who raped and killed his daugther. If Europeans have so much sympaphy or compassion to spare with those Muslim dregs, why not spare some of it with the Chinese, stealing your technologies or not?
Wake up, Europe. You HAVE TO to live with occupying American soldiers. You have no choice. You cannot defend yourself against Russians. America bombs Europe and Africa and European countries take refugees. That is not how a sovereign state behaves.
My GOVERNMENT is NOT corrupt. Its officials are. Unlike yours. You can vote in or out nothing. You can only choose a rot tomato and a rotter tomato.
As I’ve noticed, this blog is more than a decades old. This period of time has seen China and its people, despite doubts and slander and from the west, live better and better lives while the west is deep in trouble.
A Chinese company bought into Daimler and will supposedly become the largest single shareholder.
You now have Chinese bosses.
Welcome them.
The E.U. is falling apart.
The UK is leaving.
Germany and France won’t last long as parts of a Union.
shexal said
I’m not racist. I don’t hide my hate against Islam. But Islam is a religion. Muslims are not a people. They are people converted to Islam.
The word racist is better reserved for you in your sense and in my sense.
In your sense: you hate Communists even though they are creating humanity’s biggest ever miracle in bringing better life and better future to 1.4 billion people at a much faster speed than the world. In 2017, China overtook America as the largest retail market.
In my sense: you hate the Chinese even though we are a hardworking, respectable people. You are lying when you say you judge people on their character.
justrecently said
You now have Chinese bosses.
Welcome them.
Why should we welcome them, but reject Muslim refugees?
The E.U. is falling apart.
Maybe. Why should that worry me? Because it worries Merkel?
The UK is leaving.
Yes, probably – based on a democratic referendum. They can leave, and still remain friends and allies. You won’t get it, because you are looking at Tibetans (and Koreans, and the rest of the world) as vassals.
Germany and France won’t last long as parts of a Union.
See above.
This brings me back to the topic of MyLaowai’s post. The world won’t wait for people like you. Our job is to defend our liberties, while you busy yourself with kicking a dead fellow citizen. May Liu Xiaobo rest in peace.
shexal said
You should welcome Chinese bosses because they bring jobs and economic output. They are bring diseases and disorder.
Merkel? Oh yeah. The Germans. That is because if the EU fell apart, the Germans have nowhere to dump its products and import cheap labor. But I assure you that Muslims are bad workers.
What a democratic referendum! Nearly half Britons want to remain in the E.U.!
Speaking of friends, we make friends with anyone, do business with any ask your bosses and ask people from Africa, America, from Daimler.
The EU was created to put together small countries like Germany, France, and Britain, and tiny countries like Belgium, Sweden, and Estonia to compete successfully with other major countries like Russia, China, India, and America. If, it seems so likely, the EU fail, efforts of years go down the drain for no avail. On the international arena, there are no FRIENDS among countries. Now, even your Master, America’s Trump wants to a better deal for his country. What can you have, Europe and Germany?
Don’t pretend to represent the WORLD. You even don’t represent China.
More Liu Xiaobos will die by the wayside. May people like them rest in unease, forever, seeing that China and its people continues to develop and get better day by day with its current political and ecnomic system.
shexal said
The next ten years will see China move into the category of high-income countries, thus double the population in these countries and witness Europe and America plunged into deeper trouble. Your system can only produce stupid leaders like Merkel and Trump.
If you sound so aloof about the fate of Merkel, why do you bother to vote her in (or try to vote her out of) the office in the first place? Does it mean your democracy is fake?
justrecently said
You even don’t represent China.
Nor do you. Only free elections can tell.
If you were as confident about your countries “rise” as you are suggesting here, you’d wait in silence, and look forward to your great day. But you keep talking because you are afraid that the golden opportunity may still be missed. As long as there are free people, bootlickers will feel challenged by them. And even if there are no more of them, bootlickers will still fear their return.
The next ten years will see China move into the category of high-income countries, thus double the population in these countries and witness Europe and America plunged into deeper trouble. Your system can only produce stupid leaders like Merkel and Trump.
You depend on the power of your state – the state is your conscience. Most people have a conscience of their own. Some have the courage to act in accordance with their conscience, some have the courage to at least face the gap between their courage and their (in)action and live with it, and some cowards hate the courageous for reminding them of their cowardice.
I don’t think that Merkel is stupid. But I’m certainly not voting for her. Democracy is no paradise (as you apparently used to think). It’s a place where you have to live with the decisions of a majority, if you can’t convince a majority.
A footnote re your remarks about people in my country who stand idly by when women are raped. Our newspapers report such cases (and sometimes they turn out to be true, sometimes not). One of your fellow nationalists & WordPress commenters (I’m getting the feeling that you must know him very well) told me last year how he hates Chinese papers that “smeared the CCP”.
My point here isn’t about how many Germans are cowards. My point is that you are a coward, Hexal. I judge people by what they say, not by what is said about them, and your comments are reasonably reliable sources.
I face my country’s weaknesses, and I’m not blind to its strengths, either. I love my country, without thinking of it as superior. And I know how many Greek people, for example, feel about my country. The EU can only work as a community of equals. Subsidiarity, not centralism, provides opportunities.
Therefore, unlike you, I don’t need to flatter my country, or myself.
A footnote here, too. No matter if Germany would honestly face the past, or act like Japan, you will keep suggest that both of them are “groaning under occupation”. Not because that would be true, but because neither of them is acting in accordance with your wishes. You have no problems with hegemons, as long as you are the hegemon (or as long as you can feel great about being its useful idiot).
That’s it for now; I’m afraid I can’t keep commenting day in, day out. Enjoy flooding the thread. He who wins the world count is going to rule the world, right?
Work hard, Hexal – you can do it.
shexal said
What typical western hypocrisy! Germany is the hegemon of the EU. The existence of your very country as a developed one and the leader of the EU depends on your being the hegemon, on your dumping commodities in the EU. China is doing business with any on EQUAL TERMS, respecting others. We don’t demand others to be like us. That is exactly what you and the West are doing when dealing with China. WE DON’T WANT TO BE LIKE YOU AT ALL. We are ourselves. This is a value the West seems to cherish, right? Why double standards with dealing with China? Tell me.
Using your own words, your China bashing is because China and its people are not acting in accordance with your wishes and because we are not like you.
Mine is an effort to let the Chinese voice be heard. To correct any wrong impressions that China wants to be like the West. We don’t.
I’m representing the voice of my like-minded countrypeople, including the WordPress commenter you mentioned if he thinks the Chinese media is doing the smearing. He thinks very correctly because just a few weeks back a top boss of the CCP’s propaganda machine was removed from office on charges whose likes are unheard of in the CCP’s campaign against corruption. No wonder the Chinese is rife with anti-government propaganda. The like of which only happened in the eve of the collapse of the Soviet Union.
I am one of the hundreds of million Chinese people who benefit from the successful governance of our great leaders. I’m of course useful, but I’m definitely not idiotic. I am posting in the interest of myself, my family, my community, and my city. At least I know what I’m doing, unlike idiotic Germans who are allowing Muslims and Islam to pollute their country like they are now.
0112337 said
The following are my impressions of 12 European nations today, after a cross-continent tour of the once great continent;
1. UK: may very well be called United(?) Kingdom of Pakistan. The sane members are the stoic, staid muslims, the few Britons that have a respectable office job, and the insane are the vast horde of natives in track suits, sporting some kind of low crew cut, pale like chicken, holding a beer, shouting and cussing over “football”. Yes, this is your today’s Briton…well on their way to the good ol’ days with Woad paint and screaming bloody murder… (like I mentioned on here many years ago, with poverty, comes gay sex, death, woad paint, and almighty destruction..).
2. Ireland: A truly village oriented farming lot. The whole island is one giant green farm of drunk farm yokels with farmers’ sensibilities and farmers’ intelligence. The municipal pass-time of Dublin seem to be to head over to the “poob” at 5pm and get knocked over a couple of Guinness till well into the evening. When they are not drunk, they are philosophizing about what is good to eat, the weather, and how the English suck.
A jovial fine bunch of truly 真实在，老实的，村庄乡下人。
3. Belgium: effectively divided into two halves; the French in the South and the Dutch in the North. This land seems to be in perpetual social struggle. The French there are like little poodles, little pugnacious assholes that will snap at anybody not speaking French, not obeying their rules, and will squabble over any small little thing.
The Dutch Flemish, are nice, but certainly that must be from a generally low intelligence. I envision a camel. Tall, blonde, nice, smiling, but kind of slow..
4. Italy: Nobody works, everybody’s drinking coffee or still out at lunch. Passionate, nice, people that absolutely speak no English.
5. Croatia: Beautiful beautiful land with coastal cities that look surprisingly like America. Girls there are hot as f*ck, with Greek Goddess bodies and ex-communist worldly awarenesses. Their soft sandy blonde hair, sun-kissed skin, soft blue eyes, and romantic ways will melt many men’s hearts. Most on the coast speak very good American English.
6. Slovenia: The nation with a national inferiority complex. That makes a point of telling all foreigners that they are not slaves (but slavs), and they are now “Western European”, part of the EU. The post-card perfect land of stunningly deep blue skies, green trees, and garden gnome people, with garden gnome houses.
7. Slovakia: Hail to the Communist Party! After 20 years since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the average Slovakian today still only takes home 6-700 Euros a month, with a capital city that looks very much like Beijing in the 2000s. As you walk through their streets, you can’t but notice waves of strange foul smells of sewage or shit or both, coming out of nowhere. Girls are willing, but has attitude. They will tell you that their system is not Soviet or communist, but “European”. The emphasis is on “European”. Few people know English and prices here are truly “communist-prices”.
8. Austria: Surprisingly efficient, with quiet, dainty, soft-spoken, well mannered girls, and beautiful, organized cities. Things are expensive however. The logic inherent everywhere is a breath of fresh air from Slovakia and Czech Republic
9. Czech Republic: disorganized, still communist, with communist era service standards, and people that speak no english.
10. Poland: Truly friendly people that are willing to bend over backwards to help foreigners, to welcome them (if you are not muslim). Lovely girls, and truly lovely cities, perhaps the last European ones where you don’t see multi-ethnicity. Warsaw looks like Beijing today without pollution.
11. Norway: Truly very helpful, tolerant people. People there seemed to be educated since birth to want to help others. This is in stark contrast to Americans.
Many are reserved, and quiet. However, many also seem to have a wrong perception that anyone that’s not white, must be a foreigner, and must be a refugee, and thus must be offered things for free…This becomes insulting after a few instances, although I am sure it wasn’t intended,
0112337 said
11. Norway (Continued): Also, interestingly, though every there nearly speaks fluent English like Americans, the capital city’s composition is vastly different. In America, although multi-ethnic, every ethnic group is at least truly somebody back in their home country. In Norway, the other ethnic members are truly refugees, the people who are doing the worst in their countries. I saw gypsies out begging in Oslo, in broad daylight. Not sure if this can happen in Eastern or Central Europe. Prices for things there are insane. $40 USD easy for a meal at a restaurant.
12. Denmark: The most racist European country I have seen. If you are not white, people 45+ would treat you with disdain and ask for extra security to check on you. At least they don’t differentiate between black, Arab, or Asian. As long as you are not white, you get profiled. Hence, everything I said about you Europeans are proved by these Danes.
13*. Germany (Was NOT there but close enough by the border to pass judgement): Many Germans today really like China, surprisingly. It’s probably the least racist of all European countries, to all, largely due to the education system there, and the people surprisingly really like China for not yet clear reasons…perhaps the affinity from history? The shared experience of a people destroyed by war but got themselves back together through hard work, logic, organization, and order?
So independent minded, and clear on what they want. Bavarians are like little kids…
sinocidal said
Shit, mate – you still out there!!! :-)
MyLaowai said
Someone has to be, I guess.
0112337 said
Laowai, I am in Shanghai. The people here treat your kind too nicely…
I was in a situation where a Chinese woman, myself, and a US laowai were talking about business. I insisted on talking to the Laowai in Chinese, because I am the buyer, and can you believe it, the Laowai looked shocked! Like as if he expected me to speak to him in English because of his looks!!
Even the Shanghainese woman was giving ME bad looks…This will NEVER happen in the US, in most of Europe.
And here you are complaining about this city…unbelievable..
0112337 said
Muthafucka, you need to be HIT!
Princess Margaret said
Wow, you lead an exciting life!
Princess Margaret said
Typical social-inept geek boy, focusing on one little detail totally oblivious to the big picture, and wondering why the real world doesn’t sync with his rationalizations.
0112337 said
Which village in Euroep are you from B?
Admit it, the only reson your kind like a place in Asia is if the people there tret you like royalty.
pathetic, shameless. How laughable. Go teach english
0112337 said
I make a pnt of not speaking a wrd of English whenever I go to Shanghai and see your kind.
Most of your kind thereabouts’ gay anyways, espcially around 徐家汇
Prince Harry said
Rydw i o Gymru ac rwy’n credu hefyd y dylai tramorwyr siarad yr iaith leol, yna nid ydynt yn meddwl eu bod nhw yn Lloegr. Felly brwsio ar eich Cymraeg pan ddaw i Gymru, fel bachgen da.
Prince Harry said
Sorry to burst your bubble, oh wise one, but your jealousy-inspired stereotypes are just that: jealousy-inspired stereotypes, but don’t worry, you have my permission to give yourself that big pat on the back you so desperately crave anyway, so don’t let your total lack of charm and wit worry you too much, will you?
0112337 said
B, take a good lok around YOUR village today, and den take a look at Shanghai and you can tell me who’s jealous!
Mofos, stay in Shanghai, don’t come out. You are not welcomed in real China.
And you, B, speak English. You lot were conquered, act like it.
Princey said
You’re really desperate for that pat on the back, aren’t you?
shexal said
Really good news. He should have kicked the bucket sooner so that his mourners could have fits of compassion earlier.
May Liu Xiaobos rest in unease, forever – Beijing Report said
[…] the West, Liu Xiaobo is (1955-2017) known as a human rights activist. He is also a mourned Nobel Peace Prize winner. He is even said to be called China’s Nelson […]
MyLaowai said
So, hey there, Peking Report… Thanks for the pings and everything. For the benefit of anyone tempted to follow this link back – don’t bother. MyLaowai isn’t in any way a party to the sentiments expressed there, and the only reason the link isn’t deleted outright is that we don’t practise censorship here. We took a vote in the office today though, and we were unanimous in wanting to give the author a kicking.
R.I.P. Liu Xiaobo, who did more for the dignity of China than just about anyone else in the last two thousand years.
shexal said
YourLaowai, your standard of rating what constitutes dignity is below the human level. Rest in Hell, Liu Xiaobo.
shexal said
China’s GDP grew by 6.9% y-o-y in 2017. That was about 1.2 trillion USD or about the size of Australia’s total output in 2017. China’s total GPD is 13 trillion USD, more than Britain, India, France, Italy, Brazil, and Canada put together. MLY, you’ve been badmouthing China for years. What’s the performance of your country? Do you country fellows have about the same income levels as three decades ago? That is the case with Americans.
shexal said
[Moderated. Please note that, although we are not huge fans of censorship, we don’t particularly see the need to copy/paste vast swathes of gibberish. If some fool wants to read that nonsense, he/she/it can do so by following that silly ping back. You don’t actually have to publish every propaganda article word for bleeding word – grow up sunshine. MLW.]
shexal said
They are facts, not propaganda though. The Nobel Peace Prize is propaganda. Liu Xiaobo is a disgusting racist againts his own people. He makes no “great” leader like Nelson Mandella, who is an idiotic white leftist and left his country in a terrible mess with more than 10% of the South African population contracting HIV/AIDS.
shexal said
I have lots of sunshine in my day. Do you have it? Perhaps only gun deaths or rapes by Muslims?
shexal said
Norway, the country that awarded the Prize to Liu, kowtowed to and begged kneeling before China for mercy. I think that tiny country has learned its best lesson the hard way.
MyLaowai said
Well indeed, many people around the world learned a lesson from the disgraceful way your Communist Party behaved in that incident. I’m not at all certain that what they learned is what you think they all learned, so here’s a hint:
When you help a poor but arrogant people to become rich and arrogant, they won’t love you for it, and in fact you are just helping your avowed enemy to hurt you more.
That’s a lesson worth learning, I’ll admit.
shexal said
Maybe we should bomb shit out out of them so they could learn the better way. Just like some country did and is doing to Iraq, Libya, Afganistan, Syria, or North Africa. But the shit is now all over Europe, polluting every inch of land they set their feet on.
By the way, no people can be helped out of poverty by others. They can only rise out of it themselvse. Indians and Africans are as poor as ever.
So the hint for you:
The people in the west have the same level of income because their country cannot dump their products globally. The working class peoples in the west will get poorer and poorer and have more and more debts. Until one day they realize that it is their System that is fucking them.
0112337 said
“When you help a poor but arrogant people to become rich and arrogant, they won’t love you for it, and in fact you are just helping your avowed enemy to hurt you more.”
Was it purely good natured help, or was it self interest? Would you or any of your kind still be there if there’s no way to exploit the “poor and arrogant” further, to your gains?
Eh? My Dear?
;)
MyLaowai said
Oh, purely altruistic on my part, I assure you.
0112337 said
Of course, I believe you
;)
shexal said
Punishing Norway the Chinese way is much better for the people there. At least we are not doing what America is doing to North Korea and Cuba. At least we are not doing what the West did to us decades ago. Norway should be thankful for that.
So a tiny Western state learned how it felt being bullied by a stronger state. That’s great. That has been how the West treats the world. It serves it right.
shexal said
The latest update on the world economy, in 2018, China will surpass the Eurozone in terms of GDP. We are doing it on our own. It is a scucess of our own. Trade and commerce by definition are mutually beneificial. China is helping making life easier for the people in the west. They can buy Chinese products at cheaper prices so that the money saved can be alloted to support not-for-work piggish Muslims or to finance the defense industries. Without Chinese products, they will have to eat dust. Poor creatures.
Princey said
China’s GDP growth is a joke. Even when I was there in 2013 there were unused malls and apartment buildings everywhere. Do they not know people are shopping online now? There’s a difference between an economy growing by X% due to market forces, supply and demand, and the Chinese government commanding officials to build X-number of useless buildings and produce X-amount of unwanted steel just so they beat their chests to those pesky foreigners. The Japanese were doing it in the 80s and in the west we were convinced Japan was going to rule the world, but gradually the news changed, until now 30 years Japan’s economic miracle is a joke.
Another difference is that in China goods get added to GDP just by being produced – they don’t even have to sell.
Don’t you know that the USA’s GDP skyrocketed during WW2 but they were destroying wealth, not creating it?
GDP is a joke too.
shexal said
GDP is by far the best thing available to figure out how an economy performs.
China’s secret to success is government-driven investment in strategic industries. That is why the Chinese are getting wealthier than ever. The largest number of Chinese tourists visit foreign countries and spend the highest amount of money per capita.
The Western economy and its experience is irrelevant here. Do not use them to measure those of China. If you could, China should have long long ago collapsed and its people should have been begging like Indians and Africans. Your economics cannot explain Chinese economy. Japan is an American colony. It is not a sovereign state. No comparison here. After all, Japan is a tiny country by Chinese standards.
China’s GDP is actually hugely underestimated according to Western practice. For example, home rents are not included. By home rent, it means that an amount of rent you presumably “created” and yes, “sold” to yourself by residing in your house or apartment you have bought. Underworld economics, such drug trafficking and prostitution, are of course not included in China’s GDP, as are in the West. In rural China, the collectively owned lands are not included. Street vendors are not included. Smalll and micro businesses are not included. That is why the Chinese seem to be wealthier than their 8,000 USD GDP per capita suggests.
Princey said
China’s a joke, democracy’s a joke, GDP is a joke, etc etc. We’re all serfs in the end, unless you’re Bill Gates, Xi Jinping, Wen Jiabao and his family of kleptocrats or Warren Buffet. Brag all you like about your country, you’re nothing but an economic serf working hard to keep Wen Jiabao and his family in caviar.
shexal said
Precisely so. That is the case in the West, with the median household income remaining unchanged for three decades. It is no wonder why you would feel this way.
That is the case in China. In China, we hav a system that values the public ownership of land, industries, and corporations, economically ensuring real political democracy as opposed to how democracy is made a mockery of by being used as a political tool by the richest 1% to economically exploit their brainwashed subjects whose income levels remain virtually unchanged for decades.
Princey said
It’s the case in China too – communism’s a joke, Chinese communism doubly so. Ever heard of the Gini coefficient? Go and check it out b4 you cream your undies thinking about Xi Dada.
shexal said
Bill Gates or Warren Buffet are nothing compared with giant Chinese SOEs.
The big difference between China and the West is that in China capital works for the country and her people. In the West, it’s the other way around: in the West, the government and the entire country work for capital. Capitalis reap all the fruits of the people’s hard work. That is why Westerners have an income level that are the same as three decades ago. Meanwhile the GDP/economy keeps growing and the richest 1% pockets everything.
Do you feel despair?
Revolt.
WIth arms.
Princey said
Check out these photos from the biased western propaganda machine
Princey said
As I said, Gini coefficient, again, Gini coefficient, Gini coefficient.
Princey said
The great thing about not being in China is that at least you have air to breathe and open spaces without litter and spit everywhere.
Princey said
That’s right, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have nothing on the polluting inefficient Chinese SOEs – just throwing the people’s money down the drain!
I was in despair when I was in China. I have been very happy since I left.
shexal said
Again, do not try to use your West-conditioned mind to figure out what is happening in China. We are a country whose government invests heavily in industries that produce no return even in the long run simply because the people need them.
I myself and my family and my friends and acquantances over the years are all benefiting from the successful governance of the CCP. When I’m speaking for the CCP, I’m speaking for myself, my own interests, my own money.
Poverty is not an issue that is new in China and the world. It is here for thousands of years. My country is eliminating it. We will do so by 2020 by UN standards. In the past decades, 75% of those rising out of poverty are in China. That is more than 800 million. Within the next two or three years, technically, China willl get rid of poverty. Only China and only communism can do this.
This is communism. Expressed in a way that you can understand.
Princey said
Sorry, I forgot that Xi Dada and Grandpa Wen, in all their kleptocratic wisdom, don’t want you to be ideologically polluted by youtube so here’s the Youku link:
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTYzNzU2NTQ0.html
shexal said
The great thing about being in China is that we don’t fear being robbed or knifed or gunned down or mugged just because of walking on the streets or getting out at night.
Regarding litter, we don’t that many piggish Muslims.
shexal said
Speaking of corruption, in the west, it is institionalized and deeply embedded in the system. By Chinese standards, American politicians should have mostly long ago been put into prison.
I’m not saying China has no corruption. I’m only saying that in China the government fights corruption while in the west the government lives with it.
Princey said
I’ve spent the last 15 years in China. I haven’t lived in my home country since before you were born, young fenqing. Don’t pretend it’s too mysterious to understand. I can see the crap and spit all over the floor. I can see the pollution and shite and bad manners everywhere without foundational knowledge of Chinese philosophy and history. I have a nose you know. I can spell the piss and bs you spout. Eliminating poverty? Successful government? Well, not my definition of success by any means, but as they say, one’s man’s meat is another man’s poison, or to put it another way, one’s man success is another man’s failure, eh old chap.
As I said, Gini Gini Gini. Funny how you sidestep it.
shexal said
You left China perhaps because you could not survive the job market or business competition.
Princey said
No crime in China? Dream on. My wife was a lawyer in China. She can tell you about crime.
Princey said
You left China perhaps because you could not survive the job market or business competition.
You assume – I was actually working online.
shexal said
I was simply saying China is safer. China is as safe as Switzerland.
Princey said
So what? Safer than where? Where do I live? You don’t know. I was just saying China is a shithole. Absolute shithole in every way. And I don’t like how they kowtow to muslims in my home country either, so I don’t live there.
shexal said
Of course you don’t care about safety. Because you always live in safer neighborhoods.
I do care though. Because I can only afford a regular apartment, not a house or something else.
You have so much money. That is good for you. But I don’t think it is PC to show contempt for people simply because they do not have as much money as you do. Is this how you behave on a day to day basis?
Princey said
Whatever you want to believe it. Then you can go back to your 2-bedroomed tiny apartment in some filthy Beijing suburb at 2am after working your ass off for Xi Dada’s caviar and dream the Chinese dream, whatever that is.
shexal said
Sorry about that. But I have a three-bedroom apartment on two floors, just south of the 5th ring road. It goes for 5 million RMB.
Princey said
Good for you! I have a 2-bedroom apartment within the 2nd ring road and a 3-bedroom apartment in the CBD – very expensive. Still don’t want to live there.
shexal said
I can report on you then. Foreign nationals are not allowed to own property in China. How do you get them?
Princey said
I’m shaking in my boots! I thought they could own but not rent out. Apparently I also own a property in Sichuan province. I had to go to a notary office in Beijing to authorize my father-in-law to sell a property I didn’t even know I owned in Sichuan! How about that then eh? It really happened too. I had no idea my parent-in-laws’ apartment was in my wife’s name!
Next time you pass by Chaoyang Park, look across at Gongyuan Dadao, or Park Avenue, and think of me, won’t you?
shexal said
Oh, yes. Your wife is a lawyer!
shexal said
OK, laughing rich man. So this is how we are different. You, as a wealthy capitalist, is showing despise and contempt for me, an honest work-class man.
shexal said
If you despise me, why do you care so much about the Gini coefficient? You don’t seem to give a damn about poor people.
Princey said
10 points to you for side-stepping and diverting the issue elsewhere. Well done!
Princey said
I don’t despise you. You’ve given me some entertainment and put a smile on my face this afternoon. Thank you! I don’t think much of your ideology, but as a fellow human, I love you!
Princey said
I came from a very poor family. I don’t despise poor people. My wife might have a lot of property, but she won’t sell it, and we have struggled. We bought the Park Avenue property in about 2004.
shexal said
You wife seems to be a daughter of one of those corrupt CCP officials.
Princey said
Another assumption.
shexal said
You do despise me. This is what you said: …. you can go back to your 2-bedroomed tiny apartment in some filthy Beijing suburb at 2am after working your ass off …. Isn’t this balant?
Princey said
I don’t, it’s just banter.
shexal said
OK. So, if you are from a poor family, then it is even more wrong of you to show contemtp.
Princey said
Yes, it is wrong of me to show contempt. But it was in response to your contempt. A defense, if you like.
shexal said
You do. This banter is not PC. You cannot possibly explain it away. Your despise the working class, the honest hardworking people.
Princey said
I despise PC. None of the banter on here is PC.
Princey said
I know, you have personality disorders because you weren’t shown much love as a kid and now you have to win all the time. OK, you win. I despise myself.
shexal said
You are the one who has split personality disorders. You said you care so much about China’s Gini coefficient and in the same breath you joke or banter about me having to work my ass off to live in a filthy, a blatant contempt for honest working class man.
shexal said
I was talking about the evil Western system that keeps its people poor and the Chinese system that lifts people out of poverty, hundreds of millions just within decades. Whom did I show contempt for?
Princey said
Come on, that’s just propaganda. It has no basis in reality. We all know that. The people did the work themselves, not the thieving CCP.
shexal said
What you mean by propaganda. It is UN statistics and in the report of every expert in the field.
shexal said
Do you know anything about LEADERSHIP? It makes a huge difference. Just look at India and China and Africa. These two countries started from almost the same starting point. Actually, India was better than China seven decades ago.
Princey said
Africa is a country now? I think Africans are fed up with people referring to their continent as a country.
Princey said
Yes, I know about Leadership. It loves to take credit for the hard work of the common man. Another thing I know is that it’s overrated, especially in China.
shexal said
By PC, I mean you should not joke about people who are poor. This is precisely what you did. What happens to you if you do the same publicly in your country?
Princey said
I’m not in my country. As I say, you have personality disorders which make you competitive and want to win all the time. OK, you win. You are superior. Happy now?
shexal said
Like you said, do not sidestep the question: What happens to you if you do the same publicly in your country or whatever Western country or China?
Sorry about the tread locating….
Princey said
As I said, you win, you’re the best! Give yourself a lovely pat on the back! I hope you enjoy it.
Princey said
I joked about you, and you were bragging about how wonderful your country is now and how the economy is doing. You’re conflating.
Princey said
I joked about you. Are you all the poor people in the world? I thought you were rich with your 5 million RMB apartment in 5th ring road. What happened? Did you suddenly go bankrupt in the moments since you were bragging about your riches?
I don’t joke about the poor. As I said, we’re all serfs.
shexal said
Do you know anything about LEADERSHIP? It makes a huge difference. Just look at India and China and Africa. These two countries started from almost the same starting point. Actually, India was better than China seven decades ago.
shexal said
Like you said, do not sidestep the question: What happens to you if you do the same publicly in your country or whatever Western country or China?
Princey said
I don’t know, it’s changed since I was last there.
shexal said
Let me tell you. In the now stupidly PC West, you will be forced to eat your words and apoligize humbly because of your discrimination based on income.
Princey said
You mean the cultural revolution is coming to my country soon and we’re going to be having struggle sessions, and someone is going to denounce me for what I’m writing on here now? Mmmh, let me think, is that going to happen?
shexal said
My situation with Princey is also true of China. A hardworking people under effective leadership by the CCP is not accepted by the West simply because China is ideologically different. It is the contempt of a rich man who benefits from the current pecking order against a poor man who works so dilligently to rise up the order.
To any unbiased guy, China is the best success story of the humanity. Within next ten years, 1/5 of the world’s population will become citizens in a high-income country by United Nations standards. That will double the world’s population in high-income countries.
China is also the best success story of Communism,in which political and economic powers are in the hands of the people, not those of the rich. China is already more successful than the previous Communist example, the Soviet Union. It failed simply because the Soviet leadership no longer wanted to work for the people, it chose to work for the rich. China will continue its success on its communist way because through the recent Constitution amendments, the CCP tightens control over the country and over the rich, the bourgeoisie who obviously and wrongly think that with money they can do anything in China.
My dialogues with Princey made me see again clearly the arragance of the rich against the poor. I won’t be wrong for me to side with the CCP, the guardians of the poor against capitalism.
Princey said
A minute ago you said poverty was eliminated in China and all the poor people are in the west now. Of course you have machiavellianism, so you will take the slightest friendly concession I make to you and use it against me. Or have you scored a hat-trick and have the whole dark triad of personality disorders? Hurrah, 10 points to you! Give yourself a pat on the back.
shexal said
Let’s be frank. Is your world a static, never-changing one? Poverty reduction is a process and is a thing by degrees. I said China will eliminate poverty by UN standards by 2020. That is 10 million people a year by then. The Westerners are poor in the sense that all the fruits of their hard labor are harvested by people like you and their median household income remained about 60,000 for three decades.
Tell me why the Westerners have to bear this stagnation in income amidst economic development by one or two percent a year.
Princey said
Why did the Chinese make a cartoon with 4 guys called salary, oil prices, food prices, house prices etc, and a man scolding the guy called salary (the short guy) for not growing as fast as his friends, who were all tall?
Princey said
China will never be a high-income country. The earth does not have sufficient resources.
shexal said
Of course China will be a high income country, within the next decade by reasonable estimate. According to the 2017 USD price, a country with a GDP per capita of 12,236 USD is considered a high income country. Beijing, Shanghai, Zhejiang, Jiangsu, Fujian are already high-income provinces. About two 200 million people live there. The earth of course has enough resources to support the other provinces.
Princey said
Middle-income trap.
Princey said
Next decade by an unreasonably optimistic estimate. Of course, if the CCP is collecting the statistics, anything could happen.
shexal said
Middle-income trap. A pseudo concept. That is for countries like South Africa and those in Latin America. China’s manufacturing is already bigger than America, Japan, and Germany can produce together.
Princey said
Demographics
Princey said
Gini Gini Gini.
shexal said
At least China is improving its Gini.
Princey said
Do it then, side with them and proclaim how wonderful the CCP is. Then after the revolution, you can change and love the new leadership and say how horrible the commies were.
shexal said
Revolution. That was 7 decades ago. That is why the world has the PRC under the CCP. You can die hoping to you see Communism overthrown.
Princey said
Personally I don’t share your vision, for all your quibbling over definitions. I think the CCP are getting a bit desperate actually, and have been for a while. There were big hopes after the 2008 Olympics but after that the rot set in. They can fudge the figures and statistics and put a brave face on, but can’t make any substantial change now they’ve picked all the low-hanging fruit. All they can do now is block more internet sites and crack down on more scapegoats. They’ll probably just get really desperate and do something really stupid in the end.
I’m not hoping for anything with regard to the CCP, you just made that up.
shexal said
In the decade after the 2008 worldwide financil crisis, China surpassed Japan in terms of GDP and America in terms of manufacturing. It is a crisis for the West, but an opportunity for China. You can say of course this data is made up. The retoric of the Chinese leadership (CCP) keeps saying that China is still a developing country. But I’m fully convinced because parts of it are already highly developed. And my idea of a developing country is something like India.
Yes, the low-hanging fruits are already taken by the Chinese. That leaves other countries, India for example, virtually no chance to become industrialized because Chinese commodities at competitive prices crushed all their attempts at industrialization.
Regarding the high-hanging fruits. Those will be taken from the West. And that is already happening. To China, high technologies are defined as those not yet mastered by the Chinese. If they are mastered by the Chinese, they are by definition low technologies in the sense that China can manufacture them on a massive scale and at low prices that drive the competing industries in the West out of business. That is the pattern of business for the last two decades. That is partly why the Westerners have stagnant income levels: that income they could have earned are now transferred to China because China takes away their business. Western capitalists of course can choose to move factories to China for cheaper labor and get the profits. But these profits are for the bosses and a handful of lucky guys. Those left without work back home do not benefit from such transfers for low costs.For China, employment, talent, market, and tax are within China.
The west should thank the CCP for blocking sites like Facebook, Twitter, or Youtube. If not, additional 1 billion netizens will change the demographics of these sites out of recognition. You can be sure there are a lot among who have already seen what a lousy place the West is. Stagnant income. Unsafe streets and neighborhoods. Infesting Muslims. Drugs. Irresponsible politicians. Corrupt systems, etc.
You don’t need to believe or not to believe. China and the CCP will go their way. We do not care if others like how we think or behave, particularly those who hope to see doom in my country.
Princey said
Yes, I think some parts are developed already.
Princey said
You have a competitive, scarcity mentality.
shexal said
A few statistics for you to consider, of the fortune 500 companies, China has 109, America 312. Of the world’s 8 largest Internet companies by revenue, four are Chinese, four are American. Of the world’s 10 largest ports, seven are in China.
China’s next high-hang fruits: big passenger planes and semiconductors. Just consider the fact that China uses its own products to equip its world’s largest high speed train network and the business the Western businesses have lost.
Princey said
Hype, all hype and hot air
shexal said
CORRECTION: … America 132…
Princey said
Artificial intelligence is taking your job. Pretty soon they won’t have to pay you wumao because they will have computers to type out this type of hot air and empty talk.
shexal said
Yes. It is indeed taking my job. AI saves me from a lot of work.
Princey said
Of perhaps you are a computer?
shexal said
Actually, a computer user.
shexal said
Ignarance shown by some westerners, even those seemingly enlightened never fails to amaze me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_Internet_companies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_bridges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_container_ports
shexal said
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_Internet_companies
shexal said
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_bridges
Princey said
Big deal!
Princey said
Chinese trains lose money – they’re just for show
shexal said
Lose money. So that is how a West conditioned mind works. China does lot of things that are losing money. For example, build roads and rails to scarely populated areas in the west and southwest, simply to connect our country people to the nation’s expanding communications network, the longest rail, bullet train, expresway, etc. A western mind wouldn’t understand this.
Princey said
Enjoy!
shexal said
We are enjoying ourselves. We are having a bigger cake. We are providing consmers with higher quality products, so called supply side reform, eg bullet rain vs snail train (FYI, China’s slow trains (80 kph or so, that is bullet train speed in India) have ticket prices unchanged for more than a decade. This is called government serving the people. you wouldn’t be able to understand that). We account for one third of the worlds economic development per year, more than that of America.
shexal said
CORRECTION: … America 132……
shexal said
Ignarance shown by some westerners, even those seemingly enlightened never fails to amaze me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_Internet_companies
Princey said
Google just brought out its Bristlecone CPUs. I have a computer with a Loongson cpu in it in China – it’s unusably slow. China’s not very good at innovating, is it?
shexal said
Innovation. What a hot term. Just think backwards. If the Chinese are not good at innovating, how can it have become the world’s second largest economy and the worlds largest retail market?
China is good at turning scientific research results into products and services, regardless the origin of these results. China does lag behind in R&D, but that is not China’s fault. At least China is pouring money into R&D and turn the results into products and services lightening fast, eg. mobile payment, bullet train network, online shopping etc. Black Fridays in America are a throwback to the previous millenium.
Princey said
You really have a fighting spirit Shexal. I admire that about you. I think you are right about my arrogance, I should definitely not look down on those with less resources than myself, even though they’re my wife’s, and I wish I hadn’t said some of the things I wrote. I originally only planned to say we’re all serfs whether in the east or the west. Even in democracies, politicians say anything to get into power then once in power do what they like. I shouldn’t have called your country a s***hole. Of course they are good things about it, and in the future, we’re going to be seeing more Chinese technology, whether Xiaomi phones or Lenovo stuff.
I know I was unhappy in China, but I love my Chinese wife and enjoy meeting Chinese people in different countries. We met a nice lady yesterday who was eating alone yesterday.
Anyway Shexal, don’t spend too much time worrying about what people think about your country. Don’t let it distract from what your more important business. I’ll watch what I say about China in future. I’ll keep away from posting on the internet from now on.
Best wishes to you!
shexal said
You are a good guy. If you were in China, you knew what a wonderful country China is and how friendly the Chinese are towards people from abroad.
Don’t worry about my important business. Posting is a pastime for me. I even have blog for it. http://beijing.report
Best wishes to you too!
chris said
Thanks for you documentation, really helped me a lot!
chris10.young@yandex.com