Happy Birthday, Falling Cow
Posted by MyLaowai on Thursday, October 1, 2009
I’m constantly being reminded that China is the most ancient country in the world. It’s something that people are obliged to mention at least once every time they meet a foreigner. “Yes, I do like the new BMW 6 series convertible, did you know that cars were invented in China, the oldest country in the world?” is a fairly normal example. Personally, I wouldn’t be too quick to admit to coming from the country that has been developing longest for the least net gain, but that’s just a personal bias. ‘Five Thousand Years and Still Developing’ might be a catchy slogan, but it isn’t one that I’d want greeting tourists as they stepped off the plane in my country.
Now, about China being the oldest country in the world… that isn’t exactly true, but Ill concede that there is a history in this region that goes back a long way, almost as far as some European countries, in fact. Let us examine a few details together:
China, better known as Red China, formally known as the People’s Republic of China (and known by everyone who has ever visited as the People’s Republic of Cheats), was founded October 1st, 1949, after the legally elected government was overthrown by communist rebels. How old is China? Sixty. That’s younger than my father, and come to think of it, he’s in better condition mentally and physically too (though he has no plans to be World Hegemon that I am aware of).
To be fair though, when Chinese talk about how old China is, they are not referring to the PRC. They are talking about their culture. Fair enough, that’s reasonable, even if we are to overlook the fact that there is more culture in a pot of yoghurt. So, how old is the culture? And what is this ‘China’ that the Han are so keen on?
China: A History Lesson.
The first thing you need to understand is that the Chinese don’t know how to measure time properly. Really, I’m not being facetious, they really have no idea of dates and stuff. To them, all the entire history of the universe is measured in terms of Dynasties. Everything from the Big Bang on is subject to rule by a Chinese Dynasty. Sounds crazy, I know, but that’s just the way it is for these people. Unfortunately, the truth is that most of these ‘Dynasties’ did not actually exist in the sense of actual historical fact. Take this one for instance:
Xia Dynasty (ca. 2,070 BC to 1,600 BC)
This was the first ‘Official’ Dynasty, if we look past the even more dubious Dynasties of Homo Erectus et al. Most serious scholars doubt it’s existence, though most will concede that primitive people were scratching a living out of the mud and grass at the time. They probably used fire, and this is why the Chinese claim to have been the inventors of Fire. Hey, you know what? That’s a good enough story that I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt – China has certainly existed since 2,070 BC. Let’s have a look at a map of contemporary China, shall we:
Xia Dynasty 2,070 BC – 1,600 BC
The first actually proven Dynasty, as indicated by actual evidence, was the Shang (1,600 BC to 1,046 BC). However, what is referred to by the Chinese as being a ‘Dynasty’, was really little more than a collection of villages, without much in the way of a unifying power structure. It was, by any meaningful yardstick, no different to Neolithic Europe. The various tribes did apparently possess conceptual art, and scratched pictures of stick figures in shells – the Chinese today claim that this proves that Chinese invented language, but this was no more a language than are chickens scratching their claws in the dust.
The Shang was followed by the Zhou. This was a real Dynasty, or ‘nation’ as we would say. It ran from 1,045 BC to 221 BC. This means that the Zhou got started around the same time as the Iron Age was rolling out product in Europe, the Phoenician and Tamil civilisations were using advanced systems of writing, and the Assyrians (amongst others) were getting started on the Empire Building game. The Zhou were a motley collection of military states that relied heavily on technology such as the chariot (imported from the more advanced Central Asian states) and heavy state control. Some have claimed that the Zhou understood iron-working, and this may even be true, but it was a bronze-age culture. Let’s take a look at the Zhou, shall we?
Zhou Dynasty 1,045 BC – 221 BC
It is incorrect to think of the Zhou as one happy nation, as there were in fact many small nations, each fighting tooth and nail for power over the others. This was a kind of Dark Ages, but the Chinese like names that sound lovely, so they call this the ‘Spring and Autumn Period‘. It was followed by the ‘Warring States Period‘, which was more of the same, but worse. In all, the Dark Ages lasted from the 8th century BC to 214 BC, when China’s first real Chairman seized power. His name was Qin Shi Huangdi, he was a raving homosexual who took to wearing women’s clothes around the palace, and the state he founded is regarded as the model for the first truly Chinese state. Here’s what it looked like:
Qin Dynasty 214 BC – 206 BC
The Qin Dynasty was short-lived, but it set the management style for all future generations of people to be ruled by China. That style consisted of brutal oppression of the masses, rigid control of the people by the state, and absolute power of the Chairman. Everyone was to speak the same, think the same, and act the same. Oh yes, Mister Qin had a very pronounced impact indeed! In the 20th Century, Dictator Mao Zedong was known to have studied Qin Shi Huangdi very closely, and styled his new People’s Republic closely along the lines of the Qin Dynasty. Mao even went as far as practising man-love too. Who says history never repeats?
The Han came next, lasting from 202 BC to 220 AD. The Han are the ethnic group that today exercises total control over all territory garrisoned by the Red Army, including Tibet, East Turkestan and even parts of Mongolia. At the time, however, they were far smaller, as can be seen here:
Han Dynasty 202 BC – 220 AD
The First Chinese Dynasty
The Han Dynasty grew by granting neighbouring states the ‘status’ of Autonomous Regions, which over time came to be absorbed by the Han via forced immigration. Despite this, in actual warfare the Han lost at least as many battles as they won, and frequently signed Treaties with their enemies as a means of avoiding being carved up in return. No such Treaties were ever meant to be honoured, of course. Nevertheless, however you look at it, the Han were successful in consolidating Chinese power, and were in fact the first properly Chinese Dynasty. China is therefore definitively 2,211 years old, at least in terms of culture.
After the Han Dynasty fell over, lots of people took turns at running the place, including Tibetans, Turks, Mongolians, and other groups who are today referred to as ‘minorities’, but it wasn’t until the Tang Dynasty raised it’s head that ‘China’ got put back together again. The Tang (618 AD to 907 AD) were arguably the only Chinese Dynasty who were even vaguely enlightened, making Buddhism the State Religion and encouraging trade with the nations to the west. The Tang benefited greatly from the import of technology and ideas from Europe and the Middle East and represent the high water mark of Chinese culture. They also managed to successfully invade a number of regions to the west. Here’s how things looked at their peak:
Tang Dynasty 618 AD – 907 AD
Following the Tang, the region fell back into the Dark Ages, but things looked up with the advent of the Song Dynasty. The Song were not Han Chinese, although the Han today claim otherwise. It was during the Song that the so-called Great Inventions took place. The Song were defeated comprehensively by the Mongol conqueror Genghis Khan, and nearly all of East Asia became part of the Mongolian Empire. The Chinese today claim that Genghis Khan was Chinese, and thus that China during the so-called ‘Yuan Dynasty’ extended as far as Europe, but of course that is nonsense. After the Yuan Dynasty collapsed (the Mongols never really were much good at administration), large parts of their territory were administered by the Ming Dynasty. The Ming were Han, the men wore dresses and nail varnish, and they inherited a large chunk of land from their former overlords:
Ming Dynasty 1368 AD – 1644 AD
During the Ming, there was constant war with the neighbours, and large empires such as that of Tibet frequently sent them packing. Despite this, the Ming were a strong state, and consolidated their power over ‘minorities’ by forced military colonisation and a huge secret police force that killed hundreds of thousands of people. The Ming invented the philosophical concept of ‘sinification‘ of other ethnic groups by these, and other means.
The Ming were replaced by the Qing who, being Manchu, were as Chinese as the Song and Yuan had been. Despite this, the Chinese today claim that the Qing was also Chinese.
The next, and most recent, Chinese Dynasty was the Chinese Communist Dynasty (1949 AD to present), founded when the legally elected Government was overthrown by Communist rebels. Their leader, Mao Zedong, has gone down as the most brutal dictator in human history, being responsible for more deaths than Genghis Khan, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin combined. The brutality of his reign is largely overlooked by Han Chinese today, as he possessed the virtue of hating foreigners even more than he hated his own people. During the Communist Dynasty, China has more than doubled in size, by invading and annexing many of it’s neighbours. Quite an accomplishment, and one which the Han people are keen to continue with in the future, if the feeling on the streets is anything to go by. They are celebrating their 60th birthday today. Many of the men have also taken to mincing about in the streets again. There’s a definite pattern there.
China, sixty years old and going on five thousand, happy birthday. Here’s your Falling Cow:
Happy Birthday, Falling Cow
Wo Shi Laowai - Wo Pa Shui 
LoveChinaLongTime said
Old Mao might have despised foreigners, but he was cunning enough to know he needed them more than anything else. More so than his own cannon fodder…uh…I mean, people! This was all proven by the fact that he was in Stalin’s pocket for so many decades and then realized it would be wise to start a relationship with Tricky Dick when the Soviets weren’t proving to be so accommodating.
Agree that this current dynastic iteration has no claim on the “history and civilization” of the concept of “China”. Especially after they proved their difference in the zealous destruction of so much of the culture of that concept. They did, however, introduce a corruption and criminal web so sophisticated that the KMT is stewing in jealousy. Good luck Bo Xilai with your crackdown…that is, until it reaches the real upper echelon. But we know that’ll never happen!
So you’re 60…congratulations…may you continue your vise grip over *your* People for many more years to come, denying them freedoms and dignity as long as they think they are making money and lining the pockets of your sycophants. Sure you throw a party and parade that will whip up their pride, but let’s see how many of your shrillest supporters would actually even get within hearing distance of that parade which they beat their chests about.
Rock on!
Bill said
OK, China expanded from a small region to occupy a large portion of a continent. These areas Chinese toke over were not vacant. What happened to the aboriginals ? Did they all became Chinese willingly and peacefully ? Did Chinese fight them or just talk them into submission ? Did Chinese drove them out of their ancestral homes and replace them ? Did Chinese killed all of them ?
LoveChinaLongTime said
To sort of answer you Bill…”Yes”.
And they (the communists) built little “minority nationality village” parks for han to pay for entrance to gape at the exotic weird ones in their habitats.
Happy worship the CCP day!
Neddy said
Good stuff, mister MyLaowai! I find your post to be one of the few refreshing exceptions among what to me looks like a flurry of assorted crap on Anglophone China blogosphere these days.
And I am not speaking about the “usual suspects”, from whom one expects no better. I refer to some allegedly sane bloggers and commenters turning dewy-eyed as they carry on about the “PRC birthday”. Not that I have a problem with anyone trying to be fair and even-handed, but when mental processes involved seem to interfere with their perception of where is up and where is down, so to speak, then excuse me!
But, no matter… When it comes to China’s birthday, as a historical and cultural entity, my money is on Chairman Qin Shi Huangdi. A nasty piece of work, and short-lived, but let’s give credit where credit is due.
New, as in “modern”, China? Fall of Qing, and declaration of Republic (1911?). Nothing to do with CCP, who hijacked the show later on.
So what are they celebrating? Establishment of PRC, or is it in memory of takeover of China by traitors who avoided fighting Japs so that they could claim the fruit of others’ victory later on?
I could not put it better than this:
“There is nothing to celebrate about what happened in China from 1949 to 1977. In the name of ideology, millions of innocent people were killed or tortured because of their families’ social status; then millions (as in 30 million or so) were starved so officials could pretend there were food surpluses; then millions more were killed or tortured or sent to pig farms just to be sure. Since 1978, the government has gone with whatever works, and a once-impoverished people now find themselves up at El Salvador’s level in terms of GDP per capita and inequality. That’s a drastic improvement, but does it really merit that much excitement or pride when coming from such a wretched and artificially low base? This is simply where they should have been all along. If the country had 2% of the world’s population instead of 20%, we would never have noticed. It’s the scale rather than the substance of the achievement that makes it hard to be indifferent. And the fact that it’s a day off.”
http://biglychee.com/blog/2009/09/30/its-a-day-off-what-more-do-you-want/
Yes, let’s celebrate a day(s) off.
Neddy said
Something else: The “what if” musings about history are usually exercises in futility, but can, sometimes, be amusing. One of such relates to this post:
“What if Mao had lost…” from Al Jazeera
http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2009/09/2009924125746123550.html
“You wouldn’t have such destructive policies against the population if Chiang was in charge. He didn’t have Mao’s extremes”
Meredith Goldman,
Harvard University
Neddy said
Off Topic: Breaking news! Exclusive! MyLaowai (honourably) mentioned on ChinaSMACK!
Allright, no drama; it’s in a comment on a thread titled “Rectification of Names: China or Zhongguo?”. The commenter (Dave in Macau) wonders:
“That has to be the dumbest idea a Fenqing has ever come up with (and they are generally pretty dumb.)
As an earlier correspondent pointed out, the Chinese people sinacise the names of our countries and cities, why can’t we anglocise theirs?
I can’t wait for MyLaowai to weigh in on this topic!”
http://www.chinasmack.com/stories/rectification-of-names-china-zhongguo/#comment-35191
Bwahahahahahaa!
LoveChinaLongTime said
About as successful as referring to Japan as “Nippon” or “Nihon”.
Ked said
“About as successful as referring to Japan as “Nippon” or “Nihon”.”
？
By the way, the pronunciation of “Japan” and “Nippon” is from China. “Nihon” is a derivative of “Nippon”.
60,060 Years of Venerable Graft « Justrecently's Weblog said
[…] smotherland grow and prosper in all corners of the Middle Kingdom. Last but not least, Mylaowai provides us all with a comprehensive review of the past sixty years in China, plus the past sixty-thousand-and-sixty years of Chinese […]
Ned Kelly said
……zzzzzzzzzzzz…snore….zzzzzzzzzzz…..
Neddy said
BTW, there is a good one on Granite Studio:
“60th Anniversary Hangover”
http://granitestudio.org/2009/10/02/60th-anniversary-hangover/
A random quote:
“To the dumbest decision of the last week: the banning of knife sales in stores around Beijing. I understand the idea that even paranoids have enemies, but did the CCP really think that hordes of hash-crazed Xinjiang terrorists were going to storm the rostrum armed with butter knives? Note to Beijing municipality: If the materials to bringing down the state can be purchased from the “Martha Stewart Home Collection” at Carrefour then you have bigger problems than single-edged butter blades. I’m just saying.”
There will be more of this, now the 60th anniversary wankfest is over. So enjoy it.
justrecently said
You have no idea, Neddy. For a harmonious and festive stability, iron needs to be avoided these days. Of course, China would be even more stable this month if forks and bottle-openers (so far as they are made of iron) had been banned from the supermarket shelves, too.
MrsMyRaowai said
Song was actually the most Chinese of all dynasties, the Tang ruling family was made up of Northern Han married Xianbei women.
OK, China expanded from a small region to occupy a large portion of a continent. These areas Chinese toke over were not vacant. What happened to the aboriginals ? Did they all became Chinese willingly and peacefully ? Did Chinese fight them or just talk them into submission ? Did Chinese drove them out of their ancestral homes and replace them ? Did Chinese killed all of them ?
Almost all of them became Chinese willingly. The rest of them, those who balked at assimilation, became “minority ethnic groups”. There are only a few hundred million pure blooded Chinese, everyone else is mixed or a reidentified minority.
As for “Chinese civilization”, the Chinese have been civilized for 10,000 years. Chinese “history” goes back to the Xia or Shang, which have been confirmed by archaeological records.
There was not really a unified state before then, but that was because they were more egalitarian back then- they still were far more sophisticated than the Egyptians and were on par with the Sumerians in terms of technology, given that Chinese writing already featured several thousand recognizable (many of which have yet to be deciphered) characters while the Egyptians never reached even one thousand hieroglyphs until 1,000 BC.
Chinese writing is undoubtedly the oldest among known civilizations, and only a retard would say otherwise.
MrsMyRaowai said
It was, by any meaningful yardstick, no different to Neolithic Europe.
China invented pottery in 15,000 BC. Europeans made ugly, vulgar little dolls with mud.
China domesticated dogs in 12,000 BC. Europeans caused among the earliest species extinctions with the Neanderthals.
China farmed millet in 8,500 BC. Europeans grazed on the hairless vaginas of their daughters.
China domesticated rice between 11,000 to 7,000 BC. Europeans domesticated donkeys for sexual use.
China had salt in 6,000 BC. Europeans were too busy fucking their sisters.
China drank and made wine in 6,000 BC. Europeans drank river water and animal blood.
China created flutes and music in 6,000 BC. Europeans howled and gurgled at the moon like retards and failed to make use of Neanderthal instruments.
China began proto-writing in 6,000 BC. Europeans had chicken scratch, depicting the anal penetration of deer.
China invented oars and rowed around to Japan in 6,000 BC. Europeans drowned in the sea like maggots.
China steamed their food in 5,000 BC, displaying culinary knowledge. Europeans continued to beat theirs with clubs.
China lived in rammed earth fortresses in 5,000 BC. Europeans lived in caves and twig and mud huts until 1800 AD.
China invented lacquer in 5,000 BC. Europeans saw use for trees as something to swing around in, like monkeys.
China buried the dead in coffins and ceramics in 5,000 BC. Europeans fucked and ate theirs.
China had silk in 3,000 BC. Europeans wore loincloths and rags.
China drank tea in 2,700 BC. Europeans drank lake water and the blood of children.
China invented the fork in 2,400 BC. Europeans ate with their hands like monkey savages.
China created noodles in 2,000 BC. Europeans ate berry and grass paste.
China cultivated soybeans in 2,000 BC. Europeans cultivated their attraction to young children.
China created intricate networks of ceramic pipelines for sanitation and agriculture in 2,000 BC. Europeans tossed seeds on the floor and shat on them.
LoveChinaLongTime said
So basically MMR here is showing everyone now that all has been reversed in his little chart of sino superiority and progress.
The “Euros” moved on, improved and progressed and the Chinese stayed stagnant and took over and are now still doing the most primitive of what the “Euros” used to do.
~”China…5k years of culture…for 1 percent of the population”
MrsMyRaowai said
Europeons moved on?
Still pedophiles? Yes
Still mass murderers? Yes
Still maggots? Yes
Still retards? Yes
Still inbred? Yes
Still whores? Yes
Still disgusting? Yes
Still fuck their sisters? Yes
Still liars? Yes
Still thieves? Yes
The only thing that is changed is that you’re a bunch of fat cunts too.
Go die in a fire.
General Zhaoyun said
Full of garbage writing about Chinese history. Not even worth reading.
LoveChinaLongTime said
“The only thing that is changed is that you’re a bunch of fat cunts too.
Go die in a fire.”
Ooooohhhhh wassamatta??? Fenfen can’t think of a good comeback???? Gonna go home with your toys, too??? Poor Fenfen….
Ned Kelly said
China invented Zhang Ziyi (who has no ass) in the 1990s. Europeans invented the Spice Girls (four of whom have, or used to have, excellent asses, except for the wraith Victoria Beckham who looks Chinese.)
China had the Little Red Book in 1966. Americans had the Monkees and the game of Twister.
China has CCTV. America has MSNBC.
Actually, I think it’s a draw, with a slight advantage to the West.
Oh but wait. China has Hu Jintao, who is dull as dust and doesn’t pretend to be otherwise. America has Emperor Obama, who is also dull as dust but is called “eloquent” and “charismatic” by America’s chattering classes…
…okay, advantage to China. China wins the cultural contest, by a nose.
MrsMyRaowai said
Who wins, Empress Obama or Hu Jintao’s wife?
LoveChinaLongTime said
@Neddy: I’m surprised the chattering classes haven’t referred to Obama as “articulate” yet! It’s always the word to go to when you are saying a black athlete shows intelligence.
But since Obama is half white, then I guess I will have to go against you and give the edge to the West over China!
MrsMyRaowai said
The fact that he’s half white detracts from the score. He’s half white monster, half human.
Yin said
Meh, don’t act like Europe was all that. Only the Mediterranean region and Italy were “enlightened” in the ancient age (by which I mean after 1000 BC), and after the fall of Roman culture, Western Europe basically became a proverbial backwater, where everything the Greeks and Romans supposedly knew had to be “reinvented” a thousand years later. Sure, China wasn’t exactly the oldest civilization in the books, but neither was Europe; Mesopotamia predated all of you by thousands of years. But that didn’t stop Europeans from glorifying their “Aryan” heritage in the 19th and 20th centuries, no more than it’ll stop the Chinese from glorifying their “Han” heritage in the 21st.
Neddy said
@LCLT: You confuse me with another commenter – ‘Ned Kelly’ and ‘Neddy’ are two different people! Shame on you.
But I agree with your second paragraph.
S said
@ 24,
Could be the case that all fools looks/thinks alike.
LCLT is also stupid enough not to realise this, which makes him an idiot as well.
Neddy said
That’s right, S; you and Fen Fen are the living proof of that. And as for you, or him, telling an idiot from the rest, why, you cannot even recognise one when you look in the mirror…
S said
I’m usually right but this time I’m re-considering my opinion of you.
I’ve notice you always tried very hard to mimic smart people to cover up for your lack of intelligence…. that is rather bright for a fool.
LoveChinaLongTime said
I love all these philospher/wanker/nationalist fenfens that troll here. It’s like they feel some moral, patriotic duty to defend the indefensible.
I mean, I don’t know about the others but I certainly can’t be bothered to go troll at some China-centric site bagging on the West’s crappiness and extolling their great Han virtues of 5k years of culture and sophistication that brought them to the current “developing nation” status full of reverse engineers and copycats hellbent on regaining “face” lost hundreds of years ago and not remembered nor cared about by anyone except themselves.
REAL Chinese men tote their Luis Vuitton manbags, sport Rolexes, wear Armani clothing, drive their Range Rovers, send their kids to school in the West and don’t grow 3 inch-long pinky nails, right fenfen patriots??
MrsMyRaowai said
It’s more like 10,000 years of culture, 9,600 years of leading the world, 4,000 years of verifiable recorded history, but yeah
Ned Kelly said
Elvis was Chinese:
Hermit: Mid-Autum Festival must remind us of the Need for a Harmonious Planetary Configuration « Justrecently's Weblog said
[…] our country, nothing happens co-incidentally, as you know. There is a ten-thousand-year-old culture in our country, and consequently, there is a ten-thousand-year-old legend to the Mid-Autumn […]
MrsMyRaowai said
Elvis was a fat bitch like your fellow Catholic Adolf Hitler.
MyLaowai said
Funny, innit, how the more vitriolic the natives become, and the more they accuse you of lying, the nearer one knows he is to the truth?
Neddy said
I’ll tell you a state secret, Smiley: It doesn’t take a genius to outsmart you troll pandapologists, but it may be too hard to get motivated, and to bother with you in the first place.
It so tiresome to ‘debate’ with a broken record for an opponent, you know.
Next time you start a pissing contest, remember to turn against the wind. We’ll then laugh ourselves helpless, and victory will be yours!
S said
such is the Thunder from Downunder: incoherent dribble.
Neddy said
I could not put it better, Einstein. Is it a confession?
MrsMyRaowai said
I see white people.
Filthy, ugly, stupid freaks.
Kill them all.
MrsMyRaowai said
That is, *we should kill them all.
I fail at haiku
MrsMyRaowai'sLover said
MrsMyRaowai, you forgot:
10,000 years of momma’s boys that never left home or went much of anywhere. Well except for that one eunuch.
Ned Kelly said
Re comments 40 to 50:
Spam spam spam spam lovely spammm, wonderful spam spam spam spam…
MyLaowai said
Just when you think it’s safe to go into the water… The Vikings show up!
0112337 said
This is absolute nonsense. What is your objective? Are you trying to be funny or are you trying to be historically correct? You are not accomplishing either. NEVER QUOTE FROM WIKIPEDIA.
But I do want to add that the most powerful dynasties in China were ruled by minority groups. The Qing dynasty, was ruled by the Manchus, Yuan the Mongols, Tang the Persians + Uzbeki Turks, and the Qin the Mongols again. Only the Han was truly…well Han Chinese.
The concept of Chinese encompasses many ethnic groups, not just the Han people. In the ancient times there were many different peoples in China. Han, Russians, Turks, Mongols, Tibetans, Indians, Central Asians, Koreans, and Japanese. They were all Chinese because they lived on the same piece of land, adopted Confucian ideals, and followed the laws administered from the same emperor. Do not equate the term “China” with the Han.
Hu Jintao’s ancestors are not Han Chinese. His surname signifies that his family came from Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Persia, one of the territories of the Sky Turks, or somewhere else in central asia.
MyLaowai said
“In the ancient times there were many different peoples in China. Han, Russians, Turks, Mongols, Tibetans, Indians, Central Asians, Koreans, and Japanese. They were all Chinese because they lived on the same piece of land, adopted Confucian ideals, and followed the laws administered from the same emperor.”
No. If the ruler was, say, a Mongol (Kublai Khan, for instance), then China was not China, it was a district of a Mongolian Khanate, under a Mongolian Khan. The only thing Chinese about it was the fact that some of the folks who lost the war and subsequently became citizens of the Khanate were Chinese. The same applies to the Tibetan rulers of so-called China, and all the rest.
But hey, let’s follow your logic… Why is it then that I cannot become a Chinese citizen? Other people from my country can, but only if they a) renounce their existing nationality, and b) have Chinese parents. Why can’t I? I’ll make it easy for you: In ‘China’, being ‘Chinese’ is about race, as much as it is about where you live. That’s the reason why, after Great Britain allowed the Red Army into Hong Kong (against the wishes of the local people, I might add), the Hong Kongers who did not have Chinese parents were overnight rendered stateless, whilst those who did have Chinese parents were immediately offered Chinese citizenship (which many refused to accept, even to this day).
Mind you, I have heard your argument before – it’s the same argument that the Party and People use to claim that Japan and Korea will be provinces of China by 2020 (I know for a fact that that is taught in several schools where local friends of mine have children). Not that Japanese or Koreans will ever be Chinese, any more than are Tibetans, Uighurs, Utsuls, Chuanqing, or Manchu. Anyone not of ‘pure blood’ will always be racially inferior in the eyes of most Han Chinese.
Did I say ‘Chinese’? Sorry. ‘Nazi’ would have been just as accurate.
Oh, and to answer your question… I am both funny AND historically correct, not always in that order. How do I know? Because of the hate mail from your fellow Han.
0112337 said
MyLaowai, I find your response ludicrous…or…um…I hope it is ludicrous since I haven’t been back home for a few years…
“No. If the ruler was, say, a Mongol (Kublai Khan, for instance), then China was not China, it was a district of a Mongolian Khanate, under a Mongolian Khan. The only thing Chinese about it was the fact that some of the folks who lost the war and subsequently became citizens of the Khanate were Chinese. ”
Again, let me reiterate, the correct definition of “Chinese” is cultural not racial from a theoretical, historical, and legitimate perspective. The concept of “European” on the other hand, in the true “European” cultural sense, IS racial. Don’t confuse the two definitions from your Eurocentric bias! The essence of China and the soul of the Chinese lies in the Chinese language, confucianism,儒家思想, and 儒家教育. Anyone that adopts these characteristics are by definition, Chinese. This is the accepted belief in…well…pre-Communist+Republican China.
The emperors of the Yuan and Qing dynasty affirmed that they were following the order of the heavens, continuing the line of legitimate rule originating from the first two emperors Yan and Huang (炎、黄). Hence they used the term, “奉天承运，皇帝昭日”, in all their imperial edicts. The Chinese people are the sons and grandsons of Yan and Huang, “炎黄子孙”, and so by asserting that they were the legitimate successors of Yan and Huang, these Mongols and Manchus have essentially declared that they were Chinese. They proclaimed this with full knowledge of its implications, as can be attested by authentic, historical documents stored now in the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
Furthermore, they promoted and implemented Confucian policies and scholars to rule over their domain. Many of these emperors have also adopted the Chinese language and became masters of Chinese poetry. These traits, according to the previously mentioned definition, make them Chinese.
0112337 said
“Why is it then that I cannot become a Chinese citizen? Other people from my country can, but only if they a) renounce their existing nationality, and b) have Chinese parents. Why can’t I? I’ll make it easy for you: In ‘China’, being ‘Chinese’ is about race, as much as it is about where you live. That’s the reason why, after Great Britain allowed the Red Army into Hong Kong (against the wishes of the local people, I might add), the Hong Kongers who did not have Chinese parents were overnight rendered stateless, whilst those who did have Chinese parents were immediately offered Chinese citizenship (which many refused to accept, even to this day).”
I don’t really know about this since I am Chinese, culturally and racially, this never happened to me or my Chinese friends, so I can’t pass judgement. However, if it really is the case, I do feel bad for you. Like I said, the CCP is not Chinese but Soviet Russian. China during the 50s-90s was more Russian than “Chinese”.
“Mind you, I have heard your argument before – it’s the same argument that the Party and People use to claim that Japan and Korea will be provinces of China by 2020 (I know for a fact that that is taught in several schools where local friends of mine have children).”
Wow…haha..are you serious?! Is that what they feed the kids nowadays? Hahaha…that must be the inspiration of some over zealous school teacher. I am quite certain it is not part of the official state approved curriculum. Check this out,
What I meant in my original comment was that ethnic Koreans and Japanese coexisted with Hans, Jews, Turks, Persians, Annamese, Tibetans, Russians, Mongols, Tujue, Uzbekis, Afghanis, Indians, Central Asians with Macedonian origins, Romans, and many other groups within the common domain called China. They were all Chinese because they followed the definition I mentioned earlier while they were living on that piece of land which you Europeans decide to call China. The State back then recognized them all as its subjects and hence “Chinese”. Many of these foreigners mixed in with the Han. This is why you will sometimes find Chinese people that look like Turks or Southern Italians.
Your idea of “pure blood” is really an exaggeration or maybe again, a phantom of your own Eurocentric views. But there is ignorance in China, because of the current education system, most Chinese are not taught the humanities to a depth like say in America. The result is many are not sensitive enough to realize that their extreme ignorance will actually hurt others. This is a tragedy.
Like I said, modern Chinese people are the products of a proletarian worker’s society.
“Did I say ‘Chinese’? Sorry. ‘Nazi’ would have been just as accurate.”
Yes, I also noticed the disturbing new xenophobic trend through the media. But you Europeans and Americans should blame that on yourself. Modern Chinese people are trying their hardest to become “modern” or European, to my deepest regret. They learned and adopted all the negative superficialities of your culture, like hedonism, liberal sex culture, commercialized Christmas celebrations, etc. without really knowing the reason behind them or the historical and cultural precedence. Xenophobia and hatred of foreigners is also a new thing the modern Chinese state learned from interactions with the West. Do you realize that during the 70s and 80s Chinese people really believed in world peace and union of workers in the world? Do you realized how shocked they were when they were humiliated by foreigners who they thought would be their friends? It was only after contact with the West, with fuckers like you and other Laowais on here who shames China for fun that Chinese people developed this new feeling of racial superiority and xenophobia.
YOU westerners fuckin’ humiliated us during the torch relay during the Olympics, and YOU tried to split our country apart by spreading fuckin anarchy, do you expect us to love you? Come on.
If westerners continue to mock China, this xenophobia will grow stronger. And yes, you Europeans will push China onto the path of a Nazi state like Hitler’s Germany by what you are doing now.
justrecently said
YOU westerners fuckin’ humiliated us during the torch relay during the Olympics, and YOU tried to split our country apart by spreading fuckin anarchy, do you expect us to love you? Come on.
If your country splits, it will be because of mistakes at home, not because of the CIA. And only a country itself – or its one-party rulers – can choose the path of a Nazi state.
Learn to understand your own responsibilities, if you want to be taken seriously. You are a nuclear power, and an empire. You can’t be an innocent victim at the same time.
Who says that you need to love us? Love is personal. Confucius says: get your definitions straight.
Taide said
“If westerners continue to mock China, this xenophobia will grow stronger. And yes, you Europeans will push China onto the path of a Nazi state like Hitler’s Germany by what you are doing now.” (0112337)
Dear Greenhorn,
da du ein halbes Jahr in Deutschland gelebt hast und du ja sicher ein tüchtiger Mensch bist, gehe ich davon aus, dass du unserer Sprache mächtig bist. Du bietest hier eine ausgesprochen interessante Lektüre. Die Interpretation des Lebens in einer westlichen Zivilisation vermag jedoch nicht alle Aspekte abzudecken, und bleibt zu sehr an den dich interessierenden Aspekten (Hedonismus, Sex usw.) hängen. Leider übersiehst du in deiner Synthese, dass China keinerlei Grund hat, von Nazi-Deutschland zu lernen, da die Erfolge der chinesischen Eliten im Hinblick auf Totalitarismus und das Abschlachten ihrer Mitbürger und von Leuten in Satellitenstaaten wie Kambodscha keinerlei Berücksichtigung findet.
Deine interpretatorischen Schwächen sind auf eine kaum ausgeprägte Analysefähigkeit zurückzuführen, welche in den Schuljahrgängen 5 bis 8 erworben werden müssten. Aus diesem Grunde können die Ausführungen lediglich mit “Ungenügend” bewertet werden. Allerdings hege ich die Hoffnung, dass weitere Kontakte mit aufgeklärten und zivilisierten Menschen in Ost und West dir eine Hilfestellung geben, das Klassenziel “Wie finde ich mich in der Welt zurecht” doch noch zu erreichen.
MyLaowai said
Spot on, Taide.
justrecently said
There are, as so often, two Chinas. The one you will see when you live there, and the one that is emulated for foreign eyes, on China Radio International’s foreign language services, by the Foreign Languages Publishing Houses’ history and contemporary books, etc.
You can try to sell us the second brand here, 0112337. But you can’t expect it to sell. Don’t blame others for that – improve the merchandise.
0112337 said
Nobody is trying to sell you anything! Do you understand?! IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT YOU SEE, YOU CAN LEAVE. YOU CAN GO BACK TO YOUR LAND AND BREED/REPRODUCE THERE. DO YOU THINK YOU ARE WORTH MORE?
As a person who actually lived in the West and knows the ins and outs of your culture, I am downright repulsed by my fellow countrymen’s pathetic, retarded attempt to emulate you in the hope of becoming “modern”. They have no idea what they are doing or getting themselves into. The sooner they adopt the current xenophobia the better,I am glad they finally woke up and realized what is happening. Serves you jerk right for your pathetic Eurocentric snobbery.
justrecently said
I am downright repulsed by my fellow countrymen’s pathetic, retarded attempt to emulate you in the hope of becoming “modern”.
Fine. But that’s your problem, not that of anyone else. I’m leaving it here. Sundays are too precious to be wasted on discussions with crybabies.
0112337 said
Yes schoolmaster, the sooner you realize that non-Europeans does not appreciate western cultural imperialism no matter what their outward appearance, and that they view European culture merely as a scientific tool to further or better implement Confucian ideals, the sooner you will be to the next step in understanding your host country. Perhaps you will make more friends.
I wish you a pleasant Sunday.
justrecently said
And a pleasant Sunday it was. Whatever you may be referring to as cultural imperialism – you are free to take aspects of our culture or to leave it. And I am free to choose my friends carefully.
Btw, China isn’t my host country. It was until a number of years ago, I enjoyed my stay and made some friends there. They were typically people who were self-confident. And as they wouldn’t habitually bark up every tree, they usually don’t view others as schoolmasters. Not even Germans. Just stop looking up to others, no matter if you like or hate them.
That said, I’m glad that people like you speak their minds on foreign blogs. It benefits the readers indeed, particularly stuff like Enjoy your arrogance, this luxury won’t last..
What fenqings like you like to call arrogance is called freedom of expression elsewhere, and you are a good reminder that this freedom won’t continue to exist naturally if we don’t keep practising it.
MyLaowai said
Well, it did not take long for our latest repulsive troll to show his/her/it’s true colours.
Unfortunately, this is Situation: Normal when dealing with the Chinese.
0112337 said
Dear Taide,
Thank you for the interesting reply. Although I have stayed in Germany for half a year, my German is nowhere as good as fluent. I am not as capable as you assume. In order to not embarrass myself, I will refrain from writing in German.
“Die Interpretation des Lebens in einer westlichen Zivilisation vermag jedoch nicht alle Aspekte abzudecken, und bleibt zu sehr an den dich interessierenden Aspekten (Hedonismus, Sex usw.) hängen.”
No, I can’t cover all aspect of Western civilization. This is an ignorant blog, not an academic inquiry. I am not writing a book and I am not doing this for money. I am writing so much now because I am on vacation and because I am a good person who empathize with your frustrations and would like to help you lost souls succeed as human beings in my country.
You “greenhorns” may have had some exposure to the current popular culture in China, may understand something of how local officials think, but you have no idea about the culture of the elite. The true elite, ones who actually controls the country who set the pattern for future development. You merchants have not seen everything, despite what you know. I assure you.
“Leider übersiehst du in deiner Synthese, dass China keinerlei Grund hat, von Nazi-Deutschland zu lernen, da die Erfolge der chinesischen Eliten im Hinblick auf Totalitarismus und das Abschlachten ihrer Mitbürger und von Leuten in Satellitenstaaten wie Kambodscha keinerlei Berücksichtigung findet.”
Again, like I said, you are looking at things from YOUR Eurocentric perspective. When will you Europeans realize that although basic human nature is the same for all peoples, its manifestation is different? Do you believe the Arabs or “Musselman” in your historically ignorant terms, will become “European” through free trade? Do you believe young Arabic women will willingly abandon the hijab after listening to European techno? NO. Your culture is scientifically constructed, superficial, and with no solid roots.
Europe created a new world order since the 17th century largely because of its breakthroughs in natural science and its effective utilization of this breakthrough to improve daily life. This caused an evolution in your lifestyles, brought you out of the dark ages, which then gave the outward appearance of prominence. But this is shallow and untenable, do you understand? Without science, your culture is nothing.
I am surprised by what you said, you are German, I assume, yet you seem to not understand your own country’s history. Why did Germany adopt Nazism? Why did the German people follow Hitler? Was it not because of unfair treaties imposed by France and England after WWI which caused hyperinflation, intense suffering, and a sense of wounded pride? Hitler wanted to create a third Roman empire, hence the name 3rd Reich.
Why are you simply equating Nazism with mass killings?
When I said you Europeans are pushing China toward becoming a Nazi state, what I meant to say is that your foolish acts are providing the basic conditions ripe for an aggressive, racist, state that is bent on war and domination. This is not the norm in traditional Chinese culture.
“Deine interpretatorischen Schwächen sind auf eine kaum ausgeprägte Analysefähigkeit zurückzuführen, welche in den Schuljahrgängen 5 bis 8 erworben werden müssten. Aus diesem Grunde können die Ausführungen lediglich mit “Ungenügend” bewertet werden.”
Yes, and the stupid ones without education marvel at why they are frustrated by their surroundings…they come here and vent…and wish their surroundings will dumb down to their level so they can thrive.
I will leave it at that. I know you, with the superior interpretive skills will understand what I mean since you are obviously beyond “den Schuljahrgängen 5 bis 8”.
“Allerdings hege ich die Hoffnung, dass weitere Kontakte mit aufgeklärten und zivilisierten Menschen in Ost und West dir eine Hilfestellung geben, das Klassenziel “Wie finde ich mich in der Welt zurecht” doch noch zu erreichen.”
:)
MyLaowai said
“your foolish acts are providing the basic conditions ripe for an aggressive, racist, state that is bent on war and domination. This is not the norm in traditional Chinese culture.”
If I say nothing else, I have to respond to this. It seems you do not know much about Chinese history. For example, let us look at the wars of aggression and conquest that have been started by China, just in the last sixty years:
1949 East Turkestan and Mongolia
1950 Tibet and South Korea
1954 Taiwan
1956 Burma
1958 Taiwan
1960 India
1962 India
1969 Russia
1979 Vietnam
And that doesn’t include things like being the force behind the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, the Shining Path in Peru, The Mao Party’s in Nepal and India, and anti-government groups in over a dozen other countries. It also doesn’t take into consideration the over one hundred and twenty million Chinese murdered by Mao alone – and he’s considered the Father of China because he hated Laowai more than his own people! That’s more killings than Genghis Khan, Adolph Hitler, and Joseph Stalin put together! And Mao’s successors have been brutal as well – the current Chairman for example, Hu Jintao, is known to the people of Tibet as ‘The Butcher of Lhasa’.
It’s the same no matter how far back you go in ‘Chinese’ history – war, conquest, brutality, and anti-Han xenophobia.
Or didn’t you know any of this?
Be careful when casting stones, particularly when your house is made of glass.
MyLaowai said
Try this on for size.
0112337 said
Yeah, I really want to stop, but your comments are too jarring. Read the parentheses below…
1949 – East Turkestan + Mongolia (Reclaiming lost Qing territory after being defeated by Western powers. Qing was Chinese, by culture, manchu by race. By European standards, this means “Chinese (han)” invaded other lands. By Chinese standards, this meant reclaiming shattered unity. Again, Chinese is cultural not racial)
1950 – Tibet + S.K (Motivation for Tibet was the same for East Turkestan, read above. S.K. was out of desperation. Again, being cornered by western powers, America + UN. Imagine if Soviet Union stationed troops in Mexico or Canada during the Cold War and its leading general threatened to “liberate” America. Most of China’s heavy industry was in Dongbei (manchuria) at that time. Having the enemy being that close to the facilities is not an option. Mao did not want to conquer Korea, however, after he beat the U.S. + U.N. to a standstill, he might have contemplated making it a colony)
1954 – Taiwan (Taiwanese are Fujianese, they are Chinese. They are fags who think they are either white or Japanese now after being fucked by one or both over the last century. Because of this they think they are better now than their brothers across the strait. But after seeing that China has become wealthier, they have tried to curry favors like a fawning dog. Personally, I don’t want Taiwan to be part of China. Taiwanese are not worthy of being called Chinese).
1960 – India (The Indians bloody tried to bitch their way into China and take back Arunachal Pradesh and other Chinese areas. They started the border skirmishes and China gave them what they deserved.)
1962 – India (right, so if the enemy lose a few miles of ground and you see them retreat to a different hill top do you stop and wait for them to recuperate so that they can fight back or do you exterminate them (the enemy) once and for all? According to your logic, if the Chinese Army went to this hilltop to exterminate the enemy this meant CHinese racial aggression. Does this make sense?)
1969- Damansky/ZhenBaoDao (This was actually China’s fault. It shouldn’t have happened. The reason was because the Soviet Union was bullying China. The USSR was the don of the communist world and it was trying to teach the young upstart China who’s boss. China wanted to teach the Soviet Union a lesson).
1979 – Vietnam (Vietnamese army, triumphant and cocky from winning the war against America felt they were not Asian anymore and wanted to push China around a bit near the southern borders. There were some stories of intrusions and skirmishes. China again, decided to teach its little brother Vietnam a lesson. Those VietCons were dogs. There were many stories about how Chinese soldiers liberated an area only to find the local Vietnamese weapons depot containing Chinese AK-47s and other weapons. The grains in those depots were all shipped from China to aid Vietnam in its war against America. Treacherous good for nothing dogs needed to learn a lesson.)
You European Laowais look at everything from a racial perspective. Can’t you stop and listen to what I am saying? Try and look at things a bit differently for once? Stop saying they are them and we are us because either we look different or we have different cultures? Chinese people really are not as maliciously racist as you Europeans were.
What happened? Did you want to get a girl in China and she reject you because you are white? Did people ignore you because you are European? You seem to be traumatized and hell bent on finding racism in China when there are none (until now) against Europeans.
Do you realize that most modern Chinese have never met an European till 20-30 years ago? We met the Turks, Persians, Arabs, Indians, Jews, and the Mongols. But there weren’t many white Europeans. You people really are aliens, like those little blue men that jump out of discs that came from the sky. How do you think Europeans today will respond if they suddenly find a group of little blue guys wondering around their towns? Don’t you think they will stare and be shy at first about meeting them? They know absolutely nothing about these newcomers. In their mind is a complete blank. For all that could happen, these little blue guys could pull out a space laser and start zapping/killing people. Once the people figured out the little blue guys are peaceful, the natural, logical thing to do is for them to ignore them, since they can’t cause them to go away and the people have no knowledge of who they are, what they are.
This is not racism, this is a result of lack of exposure/understanding. What is more strange, some of you Laowais can speak and write Chinese.
Going back to the analogy, imagine if those little blue guys with big black eyes and bald heads not only frequent the streets of an European town but they also speak European languages and tries to imitate European ways without understanding what they are doing. Don’t you think some…say…innocent European girl will find this amusing? Wouldn’t she laugh? Can you call this racism? Most Europeans wouldn’t know how to respond to these strange little blue guys. Should they treat them like Europeans? Yet they are not Europeans, and they really don’t understand the culture. Yet they are not complete aliens, either.
It’s just like how Chinese people today are trying to imitate Western traditions. THey have no idea what they are doing, where those traditions come from, what they mean, and what will happen in the long run from following those traditions. But then again, I found many modern Europeans to be ignorant of their own culture as well..so I guess it doesn’t matter.
MyLaowai said
Right, so what you’re saying is that lots of other people either needed to be taught a lesson for not wanting to be ruled by the Han master race, or belonged to what is now taught in Chinese schools as being historically part of China since ancient times, even though that’s what is technically called ‘a lie’.
How Chinese is that? Very.
0112337 said
Justrecently,
You said you were a schoolmaster didn’t you? Do I sound like I am looking up to you? I find your culture and your country interesting, but does that mean I negate my own? A logical fallacy!
One thing you Germans are not good at is picking up sarcasm. The British are far better at that apparently. Reread my comment there and you will see.
You Laowais on this blog are idiots. Here is something to think about,
Given that {x1, x2,…,xn} = {1,2,…,n}, find, with proof, the largest possible value, as a function of n, (with n>=2), of
X1X2+X2X3+…+Xn-1Xn+XnX1.
Can you figure this out?
justrecently said
Sorry, 0112337, but Given that {x1, x2,…,xn} = {1,2,…,n}, find, with proof, the largest possible value, as a function of n, (with n>=2), of X1X2+X2X3+…+Xn-1Xn+XnX1 is completely beside the point. And yes, I can tell from your posts that you don’t respect yourself.
0112337 said
You never got my point. Never mind. Stay alive and healthy in where you are.
taide said
Naja, Jungchen, jedenfalls wurde unsere Kultur (Your culture is scientifically constructed, superficial, and with no solid roots) nicht von Hitler, Churchill, de Gaulle oder Adenauer gebastelt, sondern ist auf natürliche Weise gewachsen. Unsere Regierungen müssen nicht neue “spirituelle Zivilisationen” erfinden – wir SIND eine.
Dein Urlaub muss frustrierend sein. Für deinen nächsten Aufenthalt in Mitteleuropa empfehle ich dir, keine Techno-Parties oder Rotlichtviertel zu besuchen, sondern Veranstaltungen wie diese hier: http://taide.wordpress.com/2009/09/27/redefin-horse-show/. Die Pferde sind fast so hübsch wie die Asiatinnen, die man dort zu sehen bekommt. :)
Übrigens war ich noch nie in China (außer auf der Durchreise in Hong Kong), und muss da auch nicht unbedingt hin. Meine auslandschinesischen Freunde sind überwiegend der Meinung, dass es die chinesische Zivilisation überall in der Welt gibt.
Außer in China.
0112337 said
There is a difference between what should be and what is. I am using this ridiculous blog as a way to spread the message of what should be.
I thought you Europeans were smart enough to have figured this out already. But apparently not… and this guy Taide is telling me about watching pretty horses….unbelievable…
Modern China is a monster at this stage in its development, it is ruled by the mafia, the Chinese communist party, who controls all local mafias. The PLA is the gang’s weapons dept, and the police are its 马仔. Like the Russian mafia, it is incredibly clever, its lieutenants incredibly well educated. Like in the Soviet Union, they had the world’s best theoretical education.
Since the country is ruled by the mafia, all operations in the country are performed through a mafia mentality. I need to say no further. Use your imagination…imagine the worst. Imagine the most outrageous hedonism x10,000. The country has no goal except maximizing hedonism at this point. Services in a prominent “health club” in the delta region between Tianjing and Beijing will make Marquis Du Sade look like a saint.
The Skyscrapers and beautiful cities are only decorations, they are like the beautiful Persian rug covering over a rotten piece of floorboard. You do not want to, or dare to lift it to see the bugs and rotten wood underneath. What you will see will scare you.
Many of those who rule have no education, their #1 priority is maintain their rule, create prosperity and security for their children from their position and to maximize pleasure in all forms.
The best lawyers in China are the ones with the best connections with judges and there’s no justice. Although the general trend is to steer toward a legal system, things are still done through human connections, or guanxi.
Few of you Europeans have the stomach to actually survive in that environment. That is the truth. Americans and Australians might have a chance. The former has no culture and the latter are criminals by origin.
taide said
Hang on… it’s four hours past midnight in your place, and you are still on the internet? Poor you. I wish you a quick recovery.
0112337 said
I do appreciate your concern though Taide, internet addiction is the worst of my worries right now. It won’t kill me for another…oh I don’t know, probably 10-20 years. Coffee and cigarettes might do the job sooner though.
You too stay healthy and alive. I like Germans, you stay well in your country.
Sascha said
war sehr nett mal Ihr schoenes Deutsch zu lesen, ich habe gerade meiner Frau gesagt, dieser Typ sei bestimmt Lehrer, da schau ich auf deiner Blog und bloss sehe ich dass Du doch Lehrer bist … sei nicht so viess mit dem 011, er hat eigentlich auch Recht und hier ist er natuerlich Einer gegen Allen. Deswegen ist er auch so kampfbereit … ich stimme mit ihm ein, China wie es heute aussieht ist nicht China wie es sein koennte und Maenner wie 011 spueren es, sehen es, bereuen es auch.
Tai De said
Ich glaube, 011 kam hierher, weil er sowieso schon kampfbereit war. Und es dient bestimmt der Vertiefung der Völkerfreundschaft, wenn man Leuten das gibt, was sie haben wollen.
Dass China nicht ist wie es sein könnte, spürt und sieht 011 wohl – und beschuldigt dafür alle Welt von Amerika bis Russland.
Vielen Dank für den ungewöhnlich starken Traffic auf meinem Blog. ;)
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